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Julian Coffey

Reality Redesigned: R2

Oct 3, 2011 at 16:55


What if you suddenly had the tools to invoke some real change in the world of mountain biking design? Now put your idea in front of the Pinkbike community, as well as over 5 million design and engineering students. Add in the overwhelming support from basically the entire North American manufacturing and engineering world and BAM!

Pinkbike and The Edge Factor are proud to bring you R2 - Reality Redesigned, the ultimate design contest. R2 is what happens when the biggest names in North American manufacturing, design and engineering throw open the doors and allow both mountain bikers and designers alike to have at it.

Have a design problem? We're looking for any and all bike related design issues so we can define what categories need solutions. Grab an iPhone, Contour, GoPro, whatever you got, and send us your thoughts. If you've ever wanted to speak up, now is the time!


Over 5 million participants, 50 finalists, 28 weeks, 15 episodes, 8 judges, 1 design, 1 winner


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DEFINING THE DESIGN CATEGORIES
This is the first stage - let's identify the problems. The PB community will have the opportunity to highlight some of mountain biking's current design issues. The idea here is for Pinkbike users to submit self-shot videos that outline issues and problems that they as riders are experiencing on their bikes. This is not the time to submit actual designs, it's the time for Pinkbike users to influence how this contest is developed.

Pinkbike and the Edge Factor crew will go through the video suggestions and pick 3 or 4, establishing them as design categories for R2.

UPLOAD YOUR SUGGESTIONS
We are stoked to see what you come up with, it might be your problem that makes it into the R2 Design Contest! Keep your video short and concise...remember, not all designers will be from the biking world, so be as clear as possible! You can upload your suggestions here. Feel free to upload as many suggestions as you like.

THE R2 DESIGN CONTEST
Once the design categories have been defined, we will begin to accept design submissions. While the contest is open for anyone to participate, it is going to be heavily promoted in technology and engineering schools around the world. Expect full contest details, entry forms and prizing info soon.

WHO JUDGES THIS THING?
A panel of Riders, Manufacturers, Engineers, Designers and Educators will then go through the designs and grade them. Here is where it all gets interesting: every aspect of the show will be shot on POV cameras, edited and posted on Pinkbike. This will be an ongoing contest through until May 2012, when the top 3 designs in each category will make it to the semifinals.

RAPID PROTOTYPING
The semi finals will be rad - we take the designs from the drawing board, and we see them come alive in the additive manufacturing stage (3D printing). This next level technology physically constructs 3D geometries directly from 3D CAD designs.

MANUFACTURING & REAL WORLD TESTING
The epic conclusion will come when we see the winning design get manufactured in metal and tested by a pro rider. Testing grounds are TBD, but you can be sure it will be a dialed venue!


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UPLOAD VIDEO SUGGESTIONS HERE


Brought to you by Pinkbike and The Edge Factor Show.



155 Comments

  • + 59
flag kYing (Oct 6, 2011 at 1:36)
 Derailleurs. And.. derailleurs. And, hmm, derailleurs?
  • - 12
flag collin7 (Oct 6, 2011 at 1:52) (Below Threshold) show comment
 and chains. those things should be gone by now. granted, they certainly have it down to a science.
  • + 11
flag Kinc (Oct 6, 2011 at 2:25)
 i dont think that chain d be a problem
  • - 6
flag collin7 (Oct 6, 2011 at 4:05) (Below Threshold) show comment
 Dunno about you but i've had chains snap, fill with gunk, get rusty, etc. I'm just kinda going along with the derailleur theme here... maybe i should just say drivetrain. lol
  • + 6
flag bradwalton Plus (Oct 6, 2011 at 8:51)
 +1 for derailleurs
  • + 20
flag bigdan30 (Oct 6, 2011 at 9:01)
 chains have a 99% efficiency, so I'm fine leaving those as is
  • + 9
flag GabrielDugas (Oct 6, 2011 at 9:09)
 hydrolic derailleur, but cheap. (still don't understand why existing ones are msrp at 3000$)
  • - 15
flag rangemaster Plus (Oct 6, 2011 at 9:19) (Below Threshold) show comment
 don't get a high end chain, they tend to be hollow and snap a lot. i buy a 20 dollar chain and it lasts practically forever.

front derailleur needs a massive overhaul imo. i like the rear as is. you just need to dial it right
  • + 1
flag frdh (Oct 6, 2011 at 10:11)
 There ARE new designs/types of belts/drive systems they are trying out for bikes. Minimal stretch and apparently hard to break, of course how would this would work with gears?? IDK, I feel like they could figure SOMEthing out.

http://www.examiner.com/bicycle-transportation-in-twin-falls/chainless-bicycles-gates-carbon-drive-system
  • + 1
flag dougies (Oct 6, 2011 at 12:12)
 belt drives have been done with internal gear hubs, theres quite a few about. i mind seeing one a student did with orange bikes
  • + 54
flag dingus (Oct 6, 2011 at 13:14)
 The UCI...
  • + 10
flag ddfuji (Oct 6, 2011 at 14:33)
 http://www.examiner.com/bicycle-transportation-in-twin-falls/chainless-bicycles-gates-carbon-drive-system

+

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Zerode-bikes-first-look-2011.html

= solution
  • + 12
flag hankyman (Oct 6, 2011 at 20:40)
 yo Colin bro, you can also clean your chain...
  • + 1
flag chuck271 (Oct 7, 2011 at 8:28)
 Belts drive are pretty sweet. They have one weak point though. When a big rider gets on them and really starts cranking uphill, often the frame will tweak just enough for the belt to slip and possibly come off. I believe the Derailleur(s) could use some help.
  • + 5
flag malvern (Oct 7, 2011 at 19:56)
 No, i kinda agree with the chains comment. probs be neg propped but meh, its my opinion. Have a look at the Gates Carbon Drive: it uses a carbon fibre belt, is lighter than a chain (slight decrease in effort needed to move it), doesn't stretch, never rusts, never needs lubing and will last pretty much the life of the bike. That and the fact it is much wider so it spreads it's force over a large contact area on it's chainring and rear sprockets: less wear. That and the fact it isn't going to loose any efficiency over a chan based system. I dunno, but that seems like the way of the future to me.
  • + 1
flag wilkey (Oct 8, 2011 at 11:51)
 more specific. when the derailluer adjustment screws push out of the der. and are from that point on useless.
  • + 1
flag JHewitt (Oct 8, 2011 at 14:16)
 The real problem with belt drives is getting them on/off. I've seen frames with screw out points in the chain stays to combat this, but this has got to weaken the frame in the area...
  • + 1
flag immacaroni (Oct 8, 2011 at 23:41)
 thank you dingus for pointing out what really needs to be done. i salute you.
  • - 1
flag MiloXC3 (Oct 9, 2011 at 5:27)
 A rear deralliur that's a similar design to a front mech - a lot smaller, easier to use and cheaper!
  • + 2
flag icekoldskee (Oct 9, 2011 at 18:25)
 rear derailleurs are already being redesigned or just removed from the whole drivetrain. look at acros hydraulic rear derailleurs or gearboxes such as the pinion gearbox. we need to come up with a problem no one has addressed.
  • + 2
flag flat4split (Oct 10, 2011 at 1:52)
 Bought a brand new mid range (couple a grand) hard tail mountain bike back in 2007. Took it straight out over the hills. It was muddy. Real muddy.

The gears stopped working properly. Brand new. I had to peddle backwards to release mud 'n' stuff, then peddle so it would start changing gear again.

Now I use Rohloff 14 speed gear hubs. They're so sweet. Heavier hub, but I dont have to run 2 or 3 chain rings, just 1. I have no derailleir, no front mech or shifter and one less cable. So it all adds up. Oh and the chains shorter. So less weight there too. Big Grin
  • + 1
flag JHewitt (Oct 10, 2011 at 8:57)
 The thing with heavier hubs is that it adds extra weight in the wrong part of the bike, especially if its on a full suspension frame. Granted on your hardtail you'd feel it less, but it's less than perfect... Confused
  • + 1
flag flat4split (Oct 11, 2011 at 10:41)
 This is true, weight on the ends of suspension not good. Plus you would have to run the chain tensioner and jockie wheel, so pretty pointless. Goes pretty perfect on my hardtail for sure. Big Grin
  • + 1
flag Cmontjumper (Oct 26, 2011 at 20:01)
 maybe a more refined crank stopper for slopestyle and no footed tricks? maybe one that can be turned on an off too? would help immensely with one legged riders too http://www.pinkbike.com/video/128070
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  • + 30
flag DaveWeagle (Oct 6, 2011 at 13:55)
 Spoonyman- not sure how my name came up here, but I can tell you one thing, if "All I had were a few patents" I would be nowhere. I type to you from the midst of a 12 hour workday. I work my butt off. I have been called obsessive, overcompetitive, workaholic, etc...

Having an idea, a patent, any of that means absolutely NOTHING unless you are prepared to work for it, accept failure as it comes, and learn from your mistakes.

I think that this project has a lot of potential, a lot of kids have no idea how their bike parts, X Boxes, etc... are built. There are some amazing minds, ideas, machines, and manufacturing behind it all. The manufacturing world is an exciting one. I am the first to point out that if I didn't learn how to use a Bridgeport, a Lathe, a welder, I would be working in a lab like most of my classmates do. I built the first e*thirteen chainguides by hand using a milling machine and rotary table. I couldn't afford to pay someone to build them, so without those manufacturing skills it never would have materialized.

Point of all that is? This is a great opportunity and someone is going to get a great experience out of it. Go for it.
  • + 5
flag fergiesindahoose (Oct 7, 2011 at 6:22)
 BOOM
  • + 1
flag shrockie (Oct 12, 2011 at 11:44)
 Well said, Dave! it's tough staying on top of the ever shifting world of design, technology and trends. You have to work for it every day.. It's inspiring to see how well you've been able to work with multiple manufacturers to deliver each of them unique suspension designs that cater specifically to their needs and goals for their product. I've been in licensing for years and am very impressed with the cross-brand delivery of innovation the way you've been able to achieve. Kudos.
[Reply]
  • + 13
flag rydindirty (Oct 6, 2011 at 1:04)
 this is going to be so good!

I feel like this is a time in Mountain Biking when things start to go in a really positive direction, game changing things ahead I hope.
  • + 1
flag mph51 (Oct 7, 2011 at 11:39)
 I agree... Liquid bikes took this same concept and applied it directly to their first production bike, the Feedback. It's so sick, the owner basically made a forum for 24in bmx riders to post suggestions of what they would want in their "perfect bike"... and he made it. I feel like this show is gonna take mountain biking to a whole new level of sickness!
[Reply]
  • + 10
flag caiocrz (Oct 6, 2011 at 9:07)
 It seems that the world is finally gonna know what mtb is. My school mates are so freaking boring man, they would rather spend a sunny day playing xbox than ride a bike. it's just a shame....
[Reply]
  • + 10
flag betsie Plus (Oct 6, 2011 at 11:39)
 Simple one..... a front mech that doubles as an idler.
Great for all suspension bikes to eliminate the different feel and performance in different chainrings.
  • + 5
flag dougies (Oct 6, 2011 at 12:25)
 thats probably the most sensible/worthdoing idea ive read on this page..
  • + 3
flag lenmerderdenfer (Oct 7, 2011 at 5:19)
 For all of us who use single front ring setups, I would like to see a front chain ring and chain devise that moves synchronously laterally to compensate for the extreme alinement positions when using a 11-34 or 11-36 teethed configuration. It would be awesome to be able to do back pedaling to position our feet when setting up for terrain changes without the chain climbing or dropping on the rear cassette while not forgetting the chains ability to pinch up in the front chainring's lower front guide.
  • + 3
flag Lehel-NS (Oct 8, 2011 at 1:30)
 ^ ^ Truvativ HammerSchmidt ^ ^
  • + 2
flag betsie Plus (Oct 8, 2011 at 1:53)
 Hammerschmidt is not an idler it is a 2 speed gearbox, but thank you for your comment.
The point of my suggestion is an idler which must be adjustable for different frame designs (you move the mech clamp up and down to suit your frame etc) an idler has a specific purpose.
Hammerschmidt is heavy, high losses due to friction (as you would expect from that type of system), expensive, limited to 1 crankset (obviously), BB specific also.
The Mk1 Nomad suffers badly in the granny ring from pedal induced chain growth. For a Dh frame the Mythic (Banshe) Legend suffers also under high pedalling forces.

Information reference: http://www.pinkbike.com/news/luis-arraiz-interview-2011.html
And what about the idler wheel, what does it accomplish?
The suspension was designed to work in conjunction with the idler; you can say that it is the heart of the L.A. Link suspension. The bike has a very rearward axle path, and the instant center is located very close to the idler and that allows me to greatly reduce the amount of chain length growth and pedal induced torque. It basically separates the suspension movement from the pedal inputs and vice versa.
  • + 1
flag Lehel-NS (Oct 12, 2011 at 2:26)
 You have a good point, but I just wanted to suggest to the Hammerschmidts' system that when you're back pedaling, only the cranks are rotating backwards, the chain is stationary.
  • + 1
flag lenmerderdenfer (Oct 12, 2011 at 4:37)
 Thanks Lehel-NS! I did not remember Hammerschmidt functions like you say. It seems it is good for back pedaling but, what about chain alignment and chain wear?
  • + 1
flag wilkey (Oct 15, 2011 at 17:26)
 hammerschmidt is gay. sounds really cool though.
  • + 1
flag Lehel-NS (Oct 18, 2011 at 0:26)
 Interesting, how could be a nicely crafted piece of metal and plastic homosexual?
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  • + 8
flag aljoburr (Oct 6, 2011 at 9:49)
 Well hears what MTB bikes need is a Sealed drive gearing system, so I have built my own prototype see my page for details
IT works but looking for help to make work better
http://aljoburr.pinkbike.com/channel/Rampage/
YES WHO GETS CREDIT FOR THESE IDEAS ?
[Reply]
  • + 6
flag markweimer (Oct 6, 2011 at 17:15)
 Hey all,

I'm a high school technology/engineering instructor. Students from schools and programs like mine will be designing solutions for common problems or perhaps very specific problems with your bikes. I'm a big supporter of what Edge Factor is doing, and the partnership they have formed with Pinkbike. I hope to see scores of problems large and small demonstrated and explained, so in the end young people have a chance to make at least make an attempt at solving a REAL problem vs. a theoretical problem from their physics textbook. Failure for them is absolutely an option in this, but this is a real chance for them to feel a part of something larger and cutting edge. I think all of you will be surprised what they come up with. They're young, crazy, uninhibited, and go for broke! (sounds like a certain bike community...) So I say this - make sure we submit problems first and foremost. I think you can have confidence in Edge Factor that there will be process in place for those ideas that are really hot. The young people submitting designs need tangible problems, and they can't wait to see what you guys come up with!

All my best,

Mark
[Reply]
  • + 5
flag Broso (Oct 6, 2011 at 5:07)
 Basically you tell them the problem or issues and they create the solutions through the means listed. It's more of an open forum for input. It gives them a chance to stay progressive and innovative while being in tune with the general mountain bike public and it's needs. So if you think you have a million dollar idea and want to develop it on your own I wouldn't suggest throwing it in the mix.
  • + 4
flag EdgeFactor (Oct 6, 2011 at 5:17)
 Exactly right. We need a place to start and want to give the non-biking an inside look at the issues. We want the engineering crowd to working for you guys....not coming up with silly ideas that are of no use to the real world. Later, during the actual design contest portion of the show, if a rider thinks this is the right venue for it, then submit your million dollar idea and use this opportunity to launch yourself. Like we said, there will be skin in the game for the players.
[Reply]
  • + 5
flag rydindirty (Oct 6, 2011 at 10:05)
 Why does literally noone understand how this works? All you have to do is read the guidelines.


You think you see a problem with existing parts, you make a video explaining what you would like to see remedied and submit it. Easy. Then, when the panel chooses a variety of existing problems, they will work on improving the issue at hand. Pretty simple, nowhere did it say to post your issues in text. Smile


I will post up a video soon as I find time to do a quick one.


Cheers again on this incredibly good idea guys!
  • + 1
flag EdgeFactor (Oct 6, 2011 at 12:37)
 No worries man. I personally think out loud. If they want to talk and write for a while, streamline a thought, then post their videos we will have a better chance at coming up with something useful for everyone. I love to see people chatting. - Jeremy
  • + 1
flag rydindirty (Oct 6, 2011 at 16:19)
 I hear you, just didn't want everyone to lose sight of what this is all about. Smile I think it's a great idea and long over due. there so many positives to this, I really am excited to see what comes of it.

Sorry if I came off the wrong way, just trying to help keep things on track.

-R.
[Reply]
  • + 7
flag kylepaulson (Oct 5, 2011 at 16:58)
 This is my first submission... Issue is the current fenders compared to my motorbikes fenders and my solution.

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/221453/
  • + 2
flag Singlespeed-Seb (Oct 6, 2011 at 2:11)
 http://www.crudproducts.com/products/fast-fender-2/steve-fast-fender
  • + 13
flag bxxer-rider (Oct 6, 2011 at 2:51)
 problem i see is they dont say who will own the designs, becuse i have a few idea's where im not in the posistion to test them out with proto-typing due to no access to the right stuff, but if i was to submit my idea's, id want sole ownership of the concept, proto-type and manufactoring worldwide, as well as royalties from the additional straitline sales due to this publicity event. and i doubt i'll get that from a business savvy company. so im not going to bother risking loosing my idea's.
  • + 6
flag EdgeFactor (Oct 6, 2011 at 3:16)
 Thanks for bringing this up. We have not yet started talking about the ownership of the design because that falls into the next stage. For now we need to know where the problems lie. We are giving you guys the opportunity to help shape the direction of the contest, by submitting some real life issues that you want to see redesigned. We will start talking about the design process once we know which problems we are dealing with. Then we will have people (engineers/tech students/manufacturers/enthusiasts) focused on solving the issues. I understand the ownership sentiments...if those feelings hold you back, that would be too bad because this is an opportunity to get yourself and your ideas directly in-front of the people who make the software that approx 80% of the bikes and their components are designed with, the worlds biggest cutting tool company that provides the tooling that cut a huge percentage of the metal used on bikes... You get my point. - Jeremy
  • + 1
flag Husky360 (Oct 6, 2011 at 8:01)
 bxxer-rider -
If your ideas are good and you believe they will work, continue to think about them and look at ways of prototyping cost effectively. Having the motivation to seek it out is the difference between an idea in your head and one you can hold and patent. I sat on an idea for about 2 years, it was a modification to a lawnmower. Prototyping was lengthy without much funding, but with the help of a small machinist shop, I got there in the end. I was able to sell it to a major brand in Oz (Victa). Maybe small jobbing/machinist shop in your area could help you out. You don't need the world's biggest tooling company to make these things happen.
  • - 3
flag coltybear15 (Oct 6, 2011 at 9:41)
 I'm just going to throw this out there, derailuer hangers should no longer be made in pot metal.
  • + 3
flag spoonyman (Oct 6, 2011 at 9:50)
 I think that should you want the support of this project, you can't expect 100% of the money from your design. I think ownership should be up for negotiation at least in some part. It will be much easier to get your ideas to become a reality with experts behind you. Royalties from extra Straitline sales are VERY unrealistic, that's the whole idea of a publicity stunt - and it would be very difficult to calculate the sales directly linking back to this project.

What you should actually be fighting for is your name on the patent at the end of the day - with less focus on how things go down during the development. The idea maybe yours but if they invest it, they have the right to some of the profits from your idea... Why else would they be interested in investing? I agree that negotiations need to be made about ownership of the concept/patent/technology developed during the process but just saying "I want everything" sounds like an excuse not to enter to me.

All Dave Weagle has is a few patents and he seems to be doing pretty well!
  • + 3
flag livehardrideharder (Oct 6, 2011 at 11:00)
 @ coltybear15 you want your derailleur hanger to be the weakest link. Would you rather snap your frame or your derailleur? Id rather snap a $30 hanger.
  • + 1
flag spoonyman (Oct 6, 2011 at 11:23)
 or frame!
  • + 6
flag Rasterman Plus (Oct 6, 2011 at 13:06)
 Since the US just changed granting patents to first to file rather than first to invent (much like the rest of the world) the only thing stopping anyone from stealing any posted ideas is their good nature, and I sure as hell wouldn't bank on that at all. More importantly though are you really ever going to patent, design, or build your idea in reality? For most probably not, so post it and let someone else actually bring it to market, at least then you may get to buy and use it. It's not like the idea is of any worth anyways, ideas are the easiest part by far, the hard part is implementation, funding, design, manufacturing, distribution, sales, patents, and about 20 other things you have no idea about.
  • + 2
flag bxxer-rider (Oct 6, 2011 at 14:24)
 okay i got carried away with the royalties from extra sales bit admitidly, however does not draw from fact id still want ownership of design and concept.

as for doing it my self, ive designed the 2-d modeling already, moving onto the 3-d at the moment, many hours have already been spent perfecting each peice as i work though my main idea, also will be looking at ways of affordable local proto-typing, testing would be done by my self. however id be un-able to achive a patent on my design due to the fact if i was to produce it outside of the UK it would infringe many others, so leaving it unpatended would avoid massive legal fee's trying to write a patent that would actually protect my design since the mtb world is already awash with patents that actually mean the same thing but are worded differently.

as for DW, he's just good at writing patents, his idea's have only been stolen from else where are patented in a slightly different way then sold complanies stuff they could have done already if they were cleaver Wink

and Edgefactor, as rasterman has pointed out, soon as its up on the web without patent, if the idea is any good, it will be stolen incredibly fast, there is no way you can protect against that, also why im still hesitent to enter, since any thing you guys choose has to be a money maker (lets face it, your using pinkbike as your product reaserch and development department effectivly with this compertition) whats to stop another company watching the entries and stealing the concepts any way? whats to stop you guys putting runner up entries into testing away from view? nothing. my instinct still tell's me to go alone on this....or atleast avoid publicising my idea's world wide without any protection.
  • + 2
flag EdgeFactor (Oct 6, 2011 at 17:18)
 An interesting fact: This contest is being presented by an educational foundation. Our mandate is to promote engineering and manufacturing and to encourage young people to innovate. If someone submits an idea and make a million dollars off a design that they submitted in our contest, I will be cheering them on and helping them in any way I can.... truly the process of preparing a product for market is the really difficult part in bringing a new product to life....

So do what you like with your idea, for me....I am going to give as many people a shot at making their ideas come to life instead of letting them die in the dark abyss of inaction.(Getting in touch with my artistic side again...) I stress again, we are simply setting the stage: if there is no category that your "Big" and "secret" idea will fit into.... then you will not even have a shot at this... Just want that to be clear... - Jeremy
  • + 4
flag spi01 (Oct 6, 2011 at 17:46)
 I think a lot of people are missing the point at this moment. no one is asking for anyone to reveal any IP, but instead asking for the pinkbike comunity to submit ideas on what bothers them on a day to day basis and what components, or current conventions that people feel need improvement. Once these ideas or problems are submitted anyone will have a crack at coming up with their own solution, and someone will get to see their idea or invention come to life. It is at that point of the contest that IP will obviously need to be protected, and as Jeremy has said several times will be. If you currently have a game changing idea I would suggest that you spend all your own time and money taking it through all the steps from design, to manufacturing to testing, and marketing, and you will certainly have all the ownership including any proffits or losses to yourself. This contest will be an amazing opportunity for the right people, and will likely be the start of an exciting career for some!
  • + 1
flag davidrees91 (Oct 7, 2011 at 3:12)
 so bxxer-rider you are going to come up with ideas you cant manufacture or fund, so instead of potentially improving the industry and getting recognition for what you have designed you choose to keep them too yourself? Doesnt really make sense.
  • + 1
flag lenmerderdenfer (Oct 7, 2011 at 4:54)
 This is what they should do for Mtbs. front fenders. What are they waiting for? http://image.dirtrider.com/f/27502003/141_1001_04_z+2010_gas_gas_off_road_motorcycles_first_impression+gas_gas_280.jpg
  • + 1
flag bxxer-rider (Oct 7, 2011 at 9:44)
 i said i dont have access to the equipment at the moment, meaning im working on it Wink
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  • + 6
flag mtberdaan (Oct 6, 2011 at 2:12)
 ahhh was waiting for something like this for so long, finally i can use my design skills from school to make a debute in the mountainbike scene.

great idea.
  • - 2
flag bxxer-rider (Oct 6, 2011 at 2:52)
 bad idea, see my above post.
  • + 1
flag EdgeFactor (Oct 6, 2011 at 3:17)
 I weighed in above as well....
  • + 1
flag mtberdaan (Oct 6, 2011 at 10:36)
 i only going to participate in the engineering/design part of the contest, you guys can figure out what you want to see different on a mtb, so i can use my skills i´m learning in school. that way i get involved with (especially interesting to me) the north America mtb company´s. And because i´m still a student and dreaming every day of a life in north America and working for a company like straitline components this is a great opportunity for me, so i don´t mind giving up idea´s to one of the best mtb company´s there is.

but i get your point, if i was already making money with design and engineering i should also not give up my ideas that easy.
[Reply]
  • + 2
flag jefyeah (Oct 8, 2011 at 17:13)
 I am an industrial Design student at NJIT and I am looking forward to creating a solid design project for this comp. If any engineers in the area (north jersey) want to team up I believe we could present a real game changer, I am very good with CAD (certified in inventor) and I also have 2 years experience as an ME so I am not engineering illiterate.
  • + 1
flag jefyeah (Oct 8, 2011 at 17:55)
 Also, after reading many of these posts I would like to define the sort of issues I am looking for when considering designing a bike. More big picture stuff. Where is the future of mountain biking headed? Is there really a bike out there that is appropriate for trail riding one day and park riding the next? Are our bikes becoming too complicated and expensive for the average enthusiast? What type of alterations can be made to generic mountain bike design that will create more appeal and accessibility to the sport? Urban mountain biking sounds contradictory but it exists and seems like an untapped resource besides a couple dj bikes marketed as urban fr bikes. After questions like these are answered more questions concerning items at the component level can be answered. Everybody knows that there are antiquated systems in the mountain bike component family but without a solid foothold on where the sport is headed where is the motivation to create a radically different system to replace one that already works?
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  • + 2
flag RyanHarborne (Oct 7, 2011 at 13:22)
 Ok, yesterday i was riding my bike to 7-11 with some friends and i was just peddaling down the road and my strailtine pedal just snapped out of my crank, and my cranks are brand new. I dont know about you but i my self really hate these pedals for one they dont have barrings but i love the feeling of them. So straitline in the future please consider making pedals with barrings because your idea is ok but really sucks. Pardon any of my spelling
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  • + 1
flag malvern (Oct 7, 2011 at 20:14)
 Obviously moving from a derallieur based gearing system would be the place to start, but perhaps something to faze out cables completely. Instead of having gear cables that rust out, gum up with crud in the wet and hinder shift quality and can be a b!tch to route, wouldnt it make sense to use a remote electronic system? similar to shimano Di2 on road bikes, excpet wireless. The potential would be there to do the same with brake lines. And if you think electronics cant survive in a mountain biking environment, just take a look at bike computers/gps systems.
  • + 1
flag rootsrockpisgah (Oct 9, 2011 at 8:25)
 I was thinking cables were the weak link as well.. damn tired of having to replace shift cables so often.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag turco999 (Oct 7, 2011 at 19:12)
 I think for bikes, a coolant system for your brakes wouldn't be that bad of an idea. When rotors heat up, theyre more likely to warp, so if you keep em cool, theres a lower chance that'll happen. Im saying like a small hose that runs along the brake that spews out a coolant once in a while when the rotors at a high temperature that wont affect the braking power at all. Too far-fetched?
  • + 1
flag malvern (Oct 7, 2011 at 20:18)
 Google shimano ice-tech. I think thats a pretty good solution.
  • + 1
flag turco999 (Oct 8, 2011 at 14:54)
 wow, looks like there already ahead. Looks promising though, hopefully not something waay to expensive though.
  • + 1
flag rootsrockpisgah (Oct 9, 2011 at 8:27)
 Yeah, the new Shimano brakes are rad. Been around the XT and XTR and between the nice short lever blades and the fins mounted to the brake pads to aid cooling, they seem pretty promising. Heard nothing but good things from anyone I know riding them.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag aljoburr (Oct 7, 2011 at 11:43)
 Just to be clear that I think that Derailluars hanging down below rear axel should have changed by now, I know that this design was used for simple removal of the rear wheel, but there are ways to make this happen in a low profile setting and still easyly remove rear wheel. It just needs a bit of working out, but does mean slight modification of the frame chain stay to allow this to happen. but by doing this also allows the sealing of all the drive parts, so surely you can see some reason for this idea to be looked at further ?
Think about it, a fully sealed geared drive, with no chance of bending rear mech, with efficency of standard chain drive, but stays clean so no losses of efficencency in poor riding conditions, at least it is perfect winter bike.
If you think I that am giving this idea away, forget it. Patent pending
I just would like every one to know that it can be done and should be done on more that one bike
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/7234247/
  • + 1
flag betsie Plus (Oct 8, 2011 at 2:38)
 Part of your point is correct, the rear mech hanging down is "legacy", and as all design engineers know, "Legacy" does not necessarily mean it is the best way of doing things. It hangs down as the tensioner must sit on the lower chain half. (because the drive train adds the tension to the top half), the latest mechs (Saint) with the latest frame designs (Session 88, Nomad Mk2 etc) have a longer forward reach, shorter chain growth in the frame design. For AM bikes on a 1x9 (10) you still have to compensate for a lot of chain length difference as opposed to growth due to suspension. For this a mid rear stay linear tensioner would work well and be simple to design. Do it very well and you can eliminate the need for the tensioner on the rear mech (although this is not practical for compatibility to other systems).
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Mountain-Manic (Oct 10, 2011 at 20:05)
 I've seen a few people saying that they would like to see a fix to the chainline angle in relation to the front chainring when you are in either top or bottom gear, and I may have come up with a solution. I'm gonna need to do a few drawings in the next few weeks, and really think about it some more, but I think I may have something here!
If my plan does work, I may make a prototype in my machine shop class by the end of the year. Big Grin
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Trekalways (Oct 10, 2011 at 20:31)
 I'd love to see someone try and integrate a CVT transmission with a belt driven bicycle,

I don't think it would be possible to eliminate a chain tensioner in this situation but a sort of spring loaded chain guide would suffice and it would free up the swingarm a bit

in place of the cassette could be a grooved cone the the belt rides on, a small guide (not a deraileur) could move the belt across the cone to change the ratio
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  • + 1
flag dirtydroog (Oct 7, 2011 at 7:12)
 Also, something a bit different would be a dynamo that would be capable of powering/charging a mobile phone for hours and hours so I could track long rides with GPS. But this task seems to be geared towards cutting up chunks of metal.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag crisdebob (Oct 12, 2011 at 14:36)
 A front and rear CVT systeme could be a nice idea i'm a student in mecanical ingenerieng if some one wanna make the video of this go for it cause i dont know how to show it in a video but i will be able to design it for sure.
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  • + 3
flag maxeponken (Oct 6, 2011 at 11:17)
 This is a problem for all types of biking. Even riding to work.
People that has lost their thumbs or many fingers need to be able to grab the handlebars.
  • + 5
flag PedalShopLLC (Oct 6, 2011 at 11:57)
 huh?
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag hamncheez (Oct 8, 2011 at 10:20)
 My bike has a problem which i think is shared by all bikes. When the ground begins to not be lower in front of me, but actually higher, my bike stops. It doesn't go anymore, just because the ground gets higher! Some people call it uphill! I have to use these pedal things to just keep the stupid thing moving forward!

If someone could design a bike without this flaw it would be great.
  • + 1
flag rootsrockpisgah (Oct 9, 2011 at 8:29)
 It seems like the flaw might not be in your bike, but in your legs and your mentality towards the issue..
  • + 1
flag hamncheez (Oct 9, 2011 at 10:41)
 I dont think the problem is my head, but rather my midsection.
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  • + 1
flag Terrafire (Oct 6, 2011 at 8:20)
 I think that the crank system needs to be redesigned. There are lots of different spindle lengths, arm lengths, 1, 2 or 3 ring cranks, cranks that accept BMX style sprockets. Why cant there be a crank that is more adaptable in design, and can work with everything from DH to light-duty AM riding, or even DH to XC
  • + 2
flag betsie Plus (Oct 6, 2011 at 11:33)
 One day someone will make one... call it XTR, and sell it for lots of money.
They could even make one and call it a Middleburn RS7, which you can use for everything from street to XC to Dh.
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  • + 1
flag Samarius (Oct 6, 2011 at 9:50)
 @BECIK - the topeak pocket shock (great bit of kit) has a split valve on the pump to stop this happening - the first part screws to teh shock valve holwing the air in the shock. The second main valve screws into this valve rapidly - resulting in minimal air loss. the same applies when removing the valve. there is a tiny amount of airloss resulting in 1psi /1psi we've measured this with a digital pressure gauge.
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  • + 1
flag bigdan30 (Oct 6, 2011 at 9:04)
 those stupid little springs on quick releases. I know they're a dying device, but they're sticking around for road bikes. I say replace them with weak magnets that repel eachother to keep the QR centered.
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  • + 3
flag goosecock (Oct 6, 2011 at 13:00)
 Great I think this will make the MTB commuity here on pinkbike much stronger. Great potential!!!!
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  • + 3
flag murd1 (Oct 6, 2011 at 18:42)
 I would like to have the Pro Pedal on my Fox rear shock activated when I raise my adjustable seatpost.
  • + 1
flag iamamodel (Oct 6, 2011 at 19:18)
 and lower and/or stiffen the fork.
  • + 1
flag duncanPalka (Oct 8, 2011 at 9:52)
 basically you want a more comprehensive version of the bionicon system, i've thought about that too, something that controls the travel available and hte feel on the travel, also encompassing any geometry changes such as remote seat posts. And all this whilst not being custom to one brand products, so you were lumped with their frame. definitely a good idea. I'd also like to see a sliding chain guide with a kind of lockout so when you start to descend you can lock it to one front ring
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag yxbix (Oct 6, 2011 at 0:48)
 so, did I get it right: first they decide on what are the current problems judging by the first-stage submissions, and then the contest is open again for suggesting solutions?
  • + 1
flag lardie08 (Oct 6, 2011 at 0:55)
 the solutions wont come from pinkbike though
  • + 1
flag JulianCoffey Mod Plus (Oct 6, 2011 at 1:25)
 @yxbix - yes you've got it. The first stage is to define what needs redesigning in the mtb world, and from there we can determine 3 or 4 key categories/design problems. Once we announce what the design categories are, anyone, including and especially Pinkbike users, can submit a design.
  • + 1
flag yxbix (Oct 6, 2011 at 3:02)
 thank you, sorry for my slow comprehension Smile
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag aljoburr (Oct 6, 2011 at 10:19)
 Sealed bike drive system is way forward, thats chain and Derailluar in a box, simple,!!! but the fact that it does not exist already is the strange part?
Now it does http://aljoburr.pinkbike.com/channel/Rampage/
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  • + 2
flag Kitejumping (Oct 6, 2011 at 13:58)
 Adjustable seatpost with 10" travel that can turn a dirt jump bike into an xc bike and work on curved seatposts with minimum insertion space.
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  • + 1
flag k2dan (Oct 6, 2011 at 12:47)
 this can only be good and positive, lots of great minds out there who never had the chance to leave the package resting in there heads

the economie needed good idea like this

props to u guys
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  • + 2
flag secondtimeuser (Oct 6, 2011 at 10:54)
 On-the-fly suspension / geometry / ride characteristic adjustments. Development in progress, fwiw.
  • + 2
flag hirvi (Oct 7, 2011 at 4:06)
 They call it Bionicon : http://www.bionicon.com/en/
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  • + 1
flag strahan (Oct 6, 2011 at 20:38)
 As a product developer, engineer, and design company owner myself I hope this encourages participation by younger people to explore the design and engineering process.
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  • + 1
flag blowfish1 (Oct 23, 2011 at 9:43)
 Covers for break leavers and the break mounts on the bars, so every time you fall they don't get all scratched up or destroyed
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  • + 1
flag bmxtb (Oct 6, 2011 at 3:36)
 Sounds like an interesting plan, although i understand bxxr-rider's problem with the concept and can only agree.. I think this issue needs to be solved first.
[Reply]
  • + 3
flag TheLongMan (Oct 6, 2011 at 5:30)
 A cheap and efficient bike rack!
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  • + 1
flag duncanPalka (Oct 8, 2011 at 5:00)
 someone needs to create a shifter that is designed to be mounted to the seatpost or downtube/bottle rack, rather than bodge jobs on slopebikes
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag wipeass-jack (Oct 6, 2011 at 7:14)
 tubes! youd think there wouldnt be innertubes by now and that the tubeless stuff would be easier to use and change tyres.
  • + 2
flag darkmuncan (Oct 6, 2011 at 14:03)
 tubeless is incredibly easy to use, assuming you are using UST Tyres and tubeless rims.

It's when you start ghetto-modding non-tubeless rims/tyres with rim strips and sealant that you get into difficulty/annoyance.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag megaterribleone (Oct 6, 2011 at 18:31)
 eliminating the deraillur all togother .... gearbox in the bottom bracket or a retrofit for all bikes
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  • + 1
flag summit800 (Oct 6, 2011 at 6:25)
 that is absolutely epic. not going to lie though i wanna keep my ideas to myself!
  • + 1
flag hoolydooly (Oct 8, 2011 at 20:27)
 this is what edge factor posted above to someone wanting to keep their ideas. pretty much you just have to tell them they problem that you have a solution for. and later on they are going to figure out a non disclosure agreement so that your ideas can not be stolen. so just shoot through the problem that you have a solution for and if they like it they will talk to you more on the subject.

"Hey guys... Completely understand and support what you are saying here. Keep in mind that if you want to get an idea developed, there needs to be a category for it. We are establishing the overall problems....not the solutions...YET.
Those solutions / designs will be legally protected and there will be a stake in those solutions for the designer. At his point, it is too early to have that discussion. So YES....do not offer any intellectual property yet. Simply make sure that the issue you will eventually be answering is on the table."
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  • + 1
flag collin7 (Oct 6, 2011 at 1:58)
 Definitely need better valve covers... I'm sick of running the skull and crossbones.
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  • + 1
flag Specalized454 (Oct 8, 2011 at 10:39)
 my dad owns a cnc company and would love to make bike components atm he's still looking into it! Smile
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  • + 3
flag KonaBass911 (Oct 6, 2011 at 7:30)
 Crank stoppers...
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  • + 1
flag PammyD (Oct 6, 2011 at 14:51)
 I want to be abel to go from biggest gear to lowest gear and back in a snap, but I don't want a twist shifter
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  • + 2
flag mtbr15 (Oct 6, 2011 at 20:57)
 good quality frame shifters......
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  • + 1
flag onel (Oct 6, 2011 at 9:56)
 something to install a shifter in to the bike frame !! or a super small shifter that holds in the frame !!
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  • + 2
flag bjorntsc (Oct 6, 2011 at 3:12)
 Don't post if you don't want your ideas stolen. I agree with bxxer-rider
  • + 1
flag cydaps (Oct 6, 2011 at 3:47)
 Yeah, people spend a fortune on developing ideas and getting them patented to prevent theft and posting your ideas publically seems a bit open to all kinds of issues, including intellectual property theft. Normally when approaching a company a Non-Disclosure Agreement is signed by both parties, the idea is looked at an negotiations take place if it's something that can be worked on. Simply placing your ideas in the open domain opens them up to theft not necessarily by the companies involved in this project - most likely they are genuinely interested in working with you - but it exposes your ideas to anyone with access to this site. Therefore, someone else then claims your idea is their idea and who knows, they may just get the credit. It would seem better to have a private location for these suggestions to be uploaded to along with an electronic agreement when uploading that states full ownership of the idea to the submitter until and idea is chosen at which point negotiations take place as to ownership. Otherwise it's a great opportunity to get your ideas out there, but perhaps just needs the videos to be kept private at this stage?
  • + 4
flag EdgeFactor (Oct 6, 2011 at 3:53)
 Hey guys... Completely understand and support what you are saying here. Keep in mind that if you want to get an idea developed, there needs to be a category for it. We are establishing the overall problems....not the solutions...YET.
Those solutions / designs will be legally protected and there will be a stake in those solutions for the designer. At his point, it is too early to have that discussion. So YES....do not offer any intellectual property yet. Simply make sure that the issue you will eventually be answering is on the table.
  • + 4
flag pauldh (Oct 6, 2011 at 4:25)
 Basically give the problems you see in mountain biking and keep the solution you came up with for later.
  • + 2
flag cydaps (Oct 6, 2011 at 10:07)
 @EdgeFactor Makes sense, just hope that people submit the issue and not their solution at this stage like pauldh says! Smile It's a great idea and fully support it to keep our sport progressing! Smile
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag punkszar (Oct 6, 2011 at 4:18)
 cubical wheels we need, and rockets
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  • + 1
flag chrissawyer94 (Oct 6, 2011 at 9:59)
 is this open to tools that would be used on bikes?
  • + 1
flag turco999 (Oct 7, 2011 at 19:05)
 If so, id suggest tapered allen keys.Like at the long end, it'd start of at a small diameter and work its way up to a bgger diameter. Although youll need a deep bolt, they could potentially eliminate the problem of rounded bolts. Like a single allen key that goes from 5mm-8mm or 2-4mm within a resonable space wouldn't be bad at all.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag dirtydroog (Oct 7, 2011 at 7:09)
 I'm tired of having a sore ass from new saddles
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  • + 1
flag hoolydooly (Oct 8, 2011 at 21:31)
 The UCI. the single biggest problem in MTB!
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  • + 1
flag francoisrdt (Oct 6, 2011 at 7:14)
 Make strap drivetrain happen!! Lighter, stronger, never rusty, and so on!
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  • + 1
flag jason745 (Oct 6, 2011 at 10:27)
 Can we get this guy a lavalier microphone? I can hear the whole room...
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  • + 1
flag RyanHarborne (Oct 14, 2011 at 18:57)
 delete my comment, thats cool...
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag TheArbez (Oct 7, 2011 at 19:39)
 No pedal bob, derailleur stuff mostly
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  • + 1
flag Solso (Oct 6, 2011 at 17:52)
 Now who will be the patent holder for this new bicycle breakthrough??
[Reply]
  • - 3
flag dkidd (Oct 6, 2011 at 15:37)
 So lemmie get this straight... instead of hiring designers... they will pay any old schmuck from the street with a couple free parts to design them new products.

Hope we see prices dropping in 2013!
  • + 4
flag spi01 (Oct 6, 2011 at 17:57)
 I think you are underestimating the potential talent of the Pinkbike comunity. No matter how good any designs that come in are there will invariably be a certain amount of alterations required for manufacturing ,and I think that is going to be part of what is seen on this show. there is much more to developing a new product than just a napkin sketch. What we are truly looking for are fresh ideas for day to day equipment problems in our sport. Good luck to anyone that wants to be a part of this contest!
Cheers
  • + 1
flag Mountain-Manic (Oct 10, 2011 at 19:53)
 You'd be surprised at how many people in the Pinkbike community are involved in the manufacturing trades, (myself included), and have valid skill and creativity when it comes to designing and improving parts for the sport we are all so passionate about.
In the last few months, I've come across a fair amount of Machinists on these comment boards, most of which have been involved in the trade for years, so this project is the perfect test of the creativity and skill of the Pinkbike community.
[Reply]
  • - 3
flag superbikes (Oct 6, 2011 at 2:56)
 Flex on intense 66 rear triangle really needs looking into
  • + 1
flag becik (Oct 6, 2011 at 7:29)
 Ok, maybe there is something allready existing that I don't know of.
And it won't change the way we ride, But.

On a typical air shock the way the valve is made we need to thread in/out the pump, witch make for slow engagement of the opening/closure of the valve itself. So there is allways a leak of air depending on the way/speed you unthread the pump. Making the readed air pressure on the dial different than the actual air pressure left in the shock.

I think there might be a better way of connecting/disconnecting high pressure pumps to shocks.
  • + 1
flag Terrafire (Oct 6, 2011 at 8:31)
 To keep it light, I think a Schroeder valve is the best way.
  • + 7
flag mtnbykr05 (Oct 6, 2011 at 9:15)
 Becik: just so you know, when you disconnect the pump from the shock, the pump is losing the air, not the shock itself. When you install the pump, the air from the shock fills the pump, and then loses air. So, with that being said, whatever you actually put in the shock, is what stays on the shock until you put the pump on again or it slowly leaks out.
  • + 0
flag rydindirty (Oct 6, 2011 at 10:09)
 "On a typical air shock the way the valve is made we need to thread in/out the pump, witch make for slow engagement of the opening/closure of the valve itself. So there is allways a leak of air depending on the way/speed you unthread the pump. Making the readed air pressure on the dial different than the actual air pressure left in the shock."

actually the pressure shown on the gauge is the pressure that is left in the shock when you disconnect the pump, the air you hear escaping is the air in the line of the pump not any air from inside the shock or fork or tire for that matter.

ie. if you pump up to 150 psi and then hear a loss of air as you disconnect the pump, the pressure inside is still at 150psi. When you reconnect the pump the air pressure might read something like 130 psi, this is because that loss of 20 psi went into filling your line on the pump. A fraction might be lost to the atmosphere but if you do it fairly quick it will be very minimal.
[Reply]
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